The Paper Snail

Interview by Aaron Garbutt, ca 1998

After five or so years paired with David Grubbs as the highbrow-indie Gastr del Sol, culminating in 1998’s amazing ‘Camoufleur’, Jim O’Rourke’s latest solo effort pulls together influences as disparate as the pop of Beach Boys co-collaborator Van Dyke Parks, the experimental Americana of folkie John Fahey, and the minimalism of Tony Conrad and Arnold Dreyblatt - as well as Jim’s own pre-Gastr recordings - to create something new, yet warmly familiar. ‘Eureka’ is challenging, pleasant - and above all, satisfying. It is a work of intelligence and breadth. I’ll go so far as to say that Jim O’Rourke is the Orson Welles of independent music. When not creating his own music, Jim’s producer’s hand is guiding everyone else’s; from Sam Prekop to Stereolab to U.S. Maple; He has also toured recently with Merce Cunningham. He lives and works in Chicago and answered questions via email.

Aaron Garbutt: ‘Eureka’ is Fantastic, what are your thoughts now that it has been unleashed on the world?

Jim O’Rourke: …as far as possible from ‘Eureka’…

A.G: What about the cover art?

J.O: Well, I saw a postcard of the picture in Japan in ‘95 and knew immediately that this was one day going to be the cover of my record. the artist’s name is Mimiyo Tomozawa, and she’s brilliant. I love her stuff, and when I’m in Tokyo we go to karaoke together and scare everyone.

A.G: You’ve been producing a lot lately, are there any projects that are more inspiring or interesting than others; any good stories?

J.O: Well, Jesus, there are always too many stories to even begin. I really enjoyed the records I worked on lately: Superchunk, Aluminum Group, Stereolab, High Llamas, Sam Prekop, Licht/Mazzacane, in general they are all different and require a lot of attention and quick thinking (hopefully!!) so I’m always feeling fresh about working that way.

A.G: Who are some important musicians of the past? Contemporaries?

J.O: past: Charles Ives, Derek Bailey, Luc Ferrari, John Fahey, Van Dyke Parks, Stravinsky, etc… now: Fennesz, Pita, Kevin Drumm, Nobukazu Takemura, Markus Popp, etc…

A.G: Favorite books, films, artists?

J.O:

Books:

Films:

Artists:

A.G: Tell us about your neighborhood, any favorite restaurants, a place to get a deal on shoes?

J.O: Hmm, not much commerce in my neighborhood, no places to eat really. Lots of mexican, but not that good, plus I’m a vegetarian, so I’d get tired of the one or 2 things I can have. There is a movie theater two blocks from my house that has films for $2, but I can never go anymore -usually working all day, so…

A.G: Who was your first crush?

J.O: Hmm, Linda Jansen, Adrienne Galowski, Cheryl Atchue, Tina Schapp. High School: Miss Skowron, English teacher (of course!), and then my life long crushes started around 13: Cyndi Lauper and Ikue Mori.

A.G: Your favorite President?

J.O: ‘President’s Choice’ cookies.

Jim O’Rourke: Chicago, New-York, Tokyo et Paris quelquefois

http://www.purjus.net/music/interviews.php3?interview=20

14 Avril 2002. Auditorium du Louvres à Paris

Jim O’Rourke avait été invité dans le cadre du cycle de films “Maquillage, Le visage peint au cinéma”, à mettre en musique Larmes de Clown, un film muet de 1924 de Victor Sjörström, avec Lon Chaney. J’ai décidé de profiter de mon passage express à Paris ce weekend-là, de tenter ma chance et de rencontrer ce musicien hors-norme. J’appréhendais le fait de devoir batailler avec toute la clique journaleuse musicale parisienne (Inrocks, Magic, Libé qui sait ?). Service de presse injoignable ce dimanche, évidemment, c’était mal barré. Mais comme on dit, “qui ne tente rien n’a rien”, alors je me suis présenté à l’accueil de l’auditorium du Louvres, au culot, demandant à parler à M. O’Rourke…

2 minutes plus tard

Ca y est, on me présente. La première impression : il est pas grand le bonhomme, il est un peu bouffi le Jim. Mais avant tout, Jim O’Rourke est très aimable, fidèle à sa réputation. Malgré ses nombreuses heures de voyage avant d’arriver à Paris cette même apres-midi, Jim a donc bien voulu faire une pause dans son travail de préparation pour sa prestation du soir, avant de se faire appeler pour les balances. Voici la retranscription de l’entretien que nous avons eu ce jour-là. Dommage que je ne puisse pas vous mettre, chers lecteurs, les nombreux éclats de rire ! (on n’a pas assez de place sur le serveur de PurJus.net pour mettre du son, désolé)

Good evening Jim…

Hi.

We are at the Auditorium du Louvre. You are going to present the music you created for a silent film from the 20’s. Do you do this kind of thing Often?

I have not done it in many years. Usually I do not do it. Usually I do not enjoy doing music to film. Now, I think I remember Why, now I’ve been working on this one! (Laughter.)

…I read somewhere goal on the Internet that you very much liked movies, and maybe your interest in movies was your interest Stronger than in music?…

Yeah… my interest in film has nothing to do with the music in it! (Laughter) Usually it’s the least interesting thing for me.

Well, I must admit I’m not very familiar with all what you did, you do a lot of things. One particular thing is very striking in your interviews: you seem to always mention tons of artists names. Do you think people should like you “investigate” in music, always try to be alert? Do you feel comfortable with people just listening to the radio without bothering who’s behind?

Oh, I think everybody should investigate. It should be an active pursuit. I don’t understand how people just wait for things to be given to them. I need to find out things constantly. if i like something and I see a name related to it that I don’t know, a name on the liner note, an article with a name I know, I want to find out what the other name is. I always in need to know. I’d hope everybody would do that.

To a certain extent we – students, fellow worker for purjus.net – try to do that. But it’s a hell of a time-consuming job!

(laughs) Yeah, it takes up most of your time.

…and most of your money buying records.

Yeah. I mean, if you can’t buy records, you just find people who have them to hear them.

I learned that you’ve got a degree in composition…

(laughs)

…Do you think one must study music to understand it? Or is it just a bonus?

Yeah, it just lets you know about other aspects of it. I don’t think you need to study at all, like formerly study, like university. If anything, I think it gets in the way. because it put too much value on things that aren’t necessarily the most important things in music. It puts more value on technique and analysis than on music and what it does. So, I think school gets in the way, personnally. I think the best school in listening, is your turntable.

What do you think then about that “intellectual” jazz: in concerts it’s usually a championship for who will recognize the standard theme the first.

A lot of times that’s what that is, yeah. A lot of times “using material” gets confused with “using material to make something else”. And many people just stop at the point of using things, and don’t think of what te references mean outside of playing them. “what does it mean socially? what kind of things does it connotate?”.

Do you fear that happening in so-called “experimental” music? Some artists are just banging things on walls, or things like that… Does this kind of music appeal to you?

There’s just as much bad music in experimental music as anything else. Because people are afraid to say that some experimental music is bad. Some of it’s great, some of it’s good, some of it sucks! Just like any other kind of music. But it seems to be… It seems you can’t have an opinion about these kinds of music. You know the terms, the definition of them are so vague for many people that to start making jugements… not jugements, but having an opinion about them seems difficult. Nobody’s going to make a big stink if you say “that last Old Dirty Bastard record really sucked!” because there is sort of an understood set of criteria for what makes that good or bad. But it’s a lot more vague in experimental music. Yeah, there’s definitely bad stuff! being experimental doesn’t mean it’s good!

…and when there’s a famous name on the liner notes, it doesn’t mean it’s good.

Usually not! A lot of times, just like anything else…there’s a lot of famous names that are awesome, some are terrible. It really depends on your taste. There are plenty of famous names you couldn’t pay me to go and see. And there’s plenty of small names you couldn’t pay me to go and see. And there’s plenty of big and small names that I will always go see or listen to. It depends on one’s taste, like anything else.

A few days ago, a friend of mine listened to a Fenn O’Berg record, and he just couldn’t get into it. Do you mind?

I don’t listen to it! (laughs.) I don’t know what that record is, it’s a strange one. No, I mean it’s fine, if it’s not for them, it’s not for them. I don’t expect them to listen to… an Ace of Base record or something. I listen to Boney M. records but i don’t know many people who do! (laughs.) It doesn’t bother me if someone doesn’t like it. There’s plenty of people who don’t like it! So, if I had a problem, I’d be in deep trouble.

I also read that you have a strong interest in French “musique concrète”, but do you like some earlier French composers: like Ravel or Debussy…

Sure. Growing up I listened to all that stuff. And then I got into the Luc Ferrari and Pierre Henry and all that. Yeah, I mean, of course a lot of the 20th century composers. I always liked Milhaud very much. I like that stuff just as well.

we only spoke of “occidental” music. What about Asian music, South American music…

Japanese music. I’m crazy about it. I have a huge collection of Japanese music. There’s a whole history of music in Japan. Most people know about stuff like the noise bands, the Boredoms, things like that, which are all great. But the country has an entire history. In the 70’s there were amazing, amazing, records in Japan. There were rock bands, there were folk-rock band, there were folk bands, singer-songwriters. There’s tons of that stuff. I’m crazy about it. I go there 4 or 5 times a year just buying everything I can get my hands on. I just came back with another box full. 2 boxes full!

Do you manage to listen to all of it?

Oh yeah, I listen to everything.

So you basically live for music. You don’t do anything else?

No, I don’t do anything else. I watch movies but otherwise… I consider it all work but no, I don’t do anything else. What else is there to do? (laughs.)

You work with numerous artists, many of which you admire. Do you still have people in mind you’d love to work with?

There always is. You know, I’ve been very lucky to get to work with a lot of great people. An people I never thought I would be able to get to work with.(pause) I don’t know. I think I need a break from working WITH people! (laughs.) It’s been like ten years straight of it. There’s a lot of people I would love to do things with but it wouldn’t be necessarily collaborate. Because a lot of people I like, they do great on their own. I don’t want to mess it up. For instance I love Albert Marcoeur, if I could do like reissue the records or help them get more available. But collaborate?… I’d rather him just make a new record of his own than collaborate. (laughs.) A lot of people I like I just want them to keep doing their stuff.

Lately you put out 2 very different records. Insignificance on Domino for Europe, and I’m happy and I’m singing… on the German label Mego. In what direction will you go next?

I’m sure I won’t make another record for another 2 years. So I have no idea. I doubt I’ll make a record for a long time.

You’ll be on the road…

No, it’s just that it takes me years to make a record. Most of the stuff on the Mego record is already like 3 years old. I just take a long time to do records on my own.

.

20h30, l’auditorium est plein. j’ai des sérieux doutes sur le fait que Lon Chaney et son film muet puisse intéresser autant de gens, ce qui prouve par la même occasion que Jim O’Rourke peut rassembler plus de 500 personnes sur son seul nom. Pour être tout à fait honnête, je n’ai pas été vraiment époustouflé par la prestation électronique d’O’Rourke, qui n’a pas fait preuve d’une grande diversité d’ambiances pour accompagner les 80 minutes du film, par manque de préparation peut-être. Mais l’essentiel de la journée pour moi n’était pas là.

Un grand merci à Jim pour sa disponibilité et sa gentillesse, à l’équipe de l’auditorium du Louvres, et particulièrement à Valérie Brisset du service de presse.